Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 26, 2006 8:56:48 GMT -5
What? No it hasn't. Umm, so magic upgrades for weapons is a pretty good idea, huh? How difficult do you think it would be to add this to the existing game system?
Now, back to the battle. ^^ A small bullet damages a small area. You seem to be disregarding the fact that there exists, for instance, a .50 caliber hand gun. That would be a bullet with a diameter of .50 inches. Now, combine that size with a hollow point or soft-nosed round, and this can result in an entrance and exit would a few inches in diameter, which would be able to destroy quite a few major organs. Also, I'm not exactly sure what sorts of sword fighting you’ve seen, but there are very few swords, and even fewer people, with the ability to completely cleave off a limb. Swords, to educate a little, were late-comers to the field of weapons as a whole, and where not nearly as popular as modern culture has built them up to be. They had a very limited use, required quite a bit of skill, and a good set of plate would render most useless. I'll admit that a seven-foot-tall German with a zweihänder could probably manage to disarm (quite literally) an unarmored peasant too terrified to move out of the way. Unfortunately, this blade was so slow that it was easy to dodge. Then, as the big German tried to lift the blade for another swing, the peasant, and possibly a few of his friends, runs him through with their spears.
Most swords, including the katana, relied on the fact that their blade would cause a laceration which would cut an artery and cause major blood loss. One of the few swords that didn’t directly attempt to slash the opponent up was the rapier. It has a thin blade (approx. 2-2.5 cm in width) which is used for thrusting, and is intended to strike vital organs and the like. The thrust, in fact, was the most effective at ending a person’s life quickly. Oddly enough, that’s quite similar to how a gun works. If you're looking to remove a limb, one should look to the axe. What it lacks in elegance it makes up for in strength. There I'll, admit, is a weapon that can cleave limbs and is, overall, more useful than a sword.
As a note, I was never discussing the guns within this fantasy world here. All of my comments were based on the real world. Of course ranged weapons should be limited in effectiveness, otherwise, like you said, melee weapons would be useless. This all started as a way to explain why, even in the real world, there’s only so much damage you can do in a single swing and, thus, why there should be bonus maximums placed on melee weapons as well.
*points to M-79 grenade launcher with impact shells* Whatever. XP
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Xander
Shadowrunner
[Gamma GM]
[Type V] [65-120]
Posts: 580
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Post by Xander on Jun 26, 2006 13:06:09 GMT -5
<_<;; This is an RPG. In the real world, everybody uses guns because Genesis is right; swords and melee weapons are more ineffective at ending a person's life in our modern society. What was the last time you heard of a drive-by stabbing?
However, in our RPG, Keth has seen fit to want melee weapons. And as we are singular individuals in this fantasy world (when was there ever an RPG about boring average people?), we can inflict similar damage with melee weapons. Thus, bonus maximums for BOTH melee and ranged weapons are perfectly acceptable. I would argue for higher bonus maximums on melee weapons, since a sword is more positively effected by strength than a gun is by dexterity.
However, shall we stop this real-world weapon bickering, and move back to implementing a better weapon system?
<_<;; I'm busily working on my Psyker weapons/items....right now. *koff*
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 26, 2006 13:17:06 GMT -5
Actually, just the other day! This car drove by this group of losers down the street and someone in the passenger seat threw a knife at 'em. Didn't hit anybody...but still, I thought it was funny.
I would definitely agree that melee weapons should have a higher maximum. I just wanted it to be clear why I think they need a maximum in the first place.
I'm busily working on modifications to the ninth floor of this preparation plant. Stupid ninth floor... As for Magic weapons, I'm slowly running out of ideas. That's why I really like the modification system here. We wouldn't need to develop a whole new list of weapons; instead we'd just need to come up with the modifications, which is a lot easier. As for magic folk...they don't really lean toward the use of weapons and items, as it is. Thus my meager list. *is shamed*
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Xander
Shadowrunner
[Gamma GM]
[Type V] [65-120]
Posts: 580
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Post by Xander on Jun 26, 2006 13:29:53 GMT -5
...XD That really shouldn't be funny, but it is.
Yeah...'tis a good idea. Maybe we'll just make Psyker and magical modifications to existing weapons. <_<;; *nodnod*
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 26, 2006 13:35:15 GMT -5
Both groups of people were drunk and truth be told, I don't know if the blade of the knife was even out, but yes: quite funny.
I don't mean to make you throw your list away. I was simply complaining about my poor lack of creativity. We can always do both, of course.
So, how do we go about determining the maximum bonuses for the various weapons?
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Xander
Shadowrunner
[Gamma GM]
[Type V] [65-120]
Posts: 580
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Post by Xander on Jun 26, 2006 13:54:55 GMT -5
I actually...don't have a list. It's a mental list. Very easy to toss away. *nodnod*
For melee weapons, I'm thinking the bonuses represent amount of damage increased by increased strength. Short cutting weapons would be the lowest, long cutting weapons next, short bludgeoning weapons next, with long bludgeoning weapons gaining the most increase.
For ranged weapons, how about all the bonuses being, say, +5, which is effectively a 25 score in Dexterity. I mean, if you can aim a pistol, you can aim a rifle. No need to vary the bonuses. Perhaps accessories such as a scope could increase bonuses to +7 for greater sighting.
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 26, 2006 14:05:22 GMT -5
Mental lists are the way to go. Everything I ever do is a mental list. ^^
That makes sense. Bludgeoning weapons would benefit more from strength, as bladed weapons rely more on skill than brute power.
A Gunslinger would reach a maximum ranged bonus of +5 by the time they were level five. Hmm. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. It's nice while they're still little, but as a single quest can potentially jump you five levels in one go, that could be a problem later on. Hmm, indeed. But otherwise, yeah, I like that idea. I also like the idea of scopes and the like increasing it. *is a fan of upgrades*
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Xander
Shadowrunner
[Gamma GM]
[Type V] [65-120]
Posts: 580
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Post by Xander on Jun 26, 2006 14:19:07 GMT -5
Well, not all Quests are going to jump you five levels. Just these major plot ones are. But I think by level 5, the Gunslinger needs to think about upgrading his weaponry. I'd even do it before level 5. <_<;;
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 26, 2006 14:27:23 GMT -5
I'm just saying, with a hard week's worth of questing, one can max out their damage. As for my Gunslinger, he already owns the most powerful hand gun, at the moment, and he isn't even level two. I plan to own two of them and be all cool like that, but I digress.
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Xander
Shadowrunner
[Gamma GM]
[Type V] [65-120]
Posts: 580
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Post by Xander on Jun 26, 2006 14:59:55 GMT -5
Good point. <_<;; But I'm thinking that once you hit level 5, you should start having to upgrade your guns, because you're starting to get better. Or maybe level 7, or so. So...+7 damage max? That way, once you've doubled the possible damage of the Thorn (the lowest damage gun), you have to start upgrading.
...you just got a high-paying gig. <_<;; You suck.
New Psyker proposals:
[Psilink]: Prefix: Weapon. A Psilinked weapon is specially created for Type I Psykers. Through reinforcements in the metal, the weapon can be drawn into close-linked communion with the psyker’s arm. The weapon gains +2 max damage and +1 damage, and the Psyker cannot be disarmed when his weapon is connected. Any self-enhancing technique affects the weapon as well. [Modifications]: A Psilink weapon looks identical to normal weapons when unattached to a Psyker’s aura. When attached, both the weapon and the Psyker’s arm are surrounded by a faint red aura.
[Bound]: Prefix: Weapon. A Bound weapon is attuned to one Type II Psyker’s aura, thus making it very expensive. When attuned properly, the weapon acts as an extension of the Psyker’s control, allowing it to float within two feet of the Psyker and leaving his hands free. Manipulating the weapon becomes a free action, but attacking or defending with it requires full concentration. Accuracy is decreased by 10%, but damage remains the same. [Modifications]: A Bound weapon appears normal when at rest. When under the control of its Psyker’s aura, it glows light blue. All projectiles fired from the weapon are light blue for as long as they are within 100 ft of the Psyker.
[Reservoir]: Suffix: Weapon. A weapon Reservoir has been imbued with traces of psychic energy, specially attuned to Type III Psykers. It has the form of a regular weapon but has pockets of psychic energy attached to it. Through the use of basic energy manipulation, an Evocator can attach elemental energy to the weapon, adding that element to the weapon’s attacks. [Modifications]: The weapon feels slightly heavier than normal, due to contained energy. When imbued with elemental energy, the weapon might exhibit attributes of the element.
[Replicator]: Prefix: Weapon. A Replicator weapon is feared by all adversaries of a Type IV Psyker. By focusing his powers of conjuration into the weapon, the Type IV can create a set of replicas behind his weapon. In a melee weapon, this appears as two faint shadows following the weapon, each half damage again after the intial strike. In a gun, the bullets are followed by two shadowy bullets, which deal half damage each. [Modification]: The weapon is continually blurred, as if several weapons exist in the same space. When striking or firing, it emits a dark shadow in its path.
[Sensor]: Prefix: Weapon. A Sensor weapon acts as a channel for a Type V Psyker to utilize their extended senses. Attuned to the mind of the Psyker, the Sensor emits a psychic pulse when it strikes an enemy. In this pulse, the Type V can read the current state of his enemies’ thought, including their next intention in combat. Sensor weapons are primarily for knowledge and do -2 damage. [Modification]: The Sensor weapon looks normal when inactive, but when it strikes an opponent, it emits a burst of light that shoots back to the Psyker’s eyes and enters them.
[Disconcertion]: Prefix: Weapon. Specially attuned to a Type VI’s mind, the weapon increases the Psyker’s telepathic powers when it strikes an enemy. It provides a temporary connection between the two, which allows the Psyker to deal 15% Stun damage with each strike. [Modifications]: The weapon looks normal when inactive, but it gains a faint purplish haze when activated by a Psyker’s touch. The haze remains for a few seconds at each strike before fading.
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 26, 2006 15:11:15 GMT -5
I think you hit on something. We pick a weapon that is approximately the lowest damaging of that type, and once you're doubled its damage, that's the maximum. Who knows, that could work.
And I like those. Well done. *claps* You're putting me to shame, you know? Now I have to make a fancy list, too. Great.
And as a random note, I just smited you over on .h//E by accident. I was trying to see your Player Stats. T_T
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Post by Ancient on Jun 27, 2006 2:29:08 GMT -5
To seal the arguement regarding weapons; I was stating that a sword carves more flesh, and seeing as even on this site it's impossible to max out a weapons damage as anything less then a level 3-4 anyways, which is most certainly NOT a weakling... >>; I was saying that a sword has more potential to inflict damage with a single attack based off the skill AND strength of its wielder. While a gun has more flat potential but takes ALOT more to get greater damage out of it, and even then there is only so perfectly you can shoot someone through the skull. >_>;;
As for the weapons; nice one Xander... Well, nice six really... But we'll have to actually come up with the psionic weapons creation before those can be implimented... Sorry.
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 27, 2006 6:57:33 GMT -5
I'll just say one thing: agreed. That'll work to seal the argument. XP
So you actually want weapons just for Psykers, then? And then you'd slap Xander's upgrades on them? Is that how that would work?
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Xander
Shadowrunner
[Gamma GM]
[Type V] [65-120]
Posts: 580
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Post by Xander on Jun 27, 2006 8:57:56 GMT -5
...weren't we just talking about not actually inventing new weapons and instead just making variations on normal weapons? it'd be far less complicated and require a lot less complexity, which does nothing but make us feel good about creating it. <_<;; It's hardly practical.
Obviously, adding a Psionic upgrade to a weapon would not only cost quite a bit, but it would require a Psionic Weaponsmith or something to create the psychic aura on the weapon.
IMO, Psionic weapons as a type is a bit oxymoronic. Psykers are people who rely on mental strength; what exact weapons would they be wielding? It just makes more sense to me to have customized Psionic upgrades to everyday weapons.
...if Spec-Ops pistols are considered everyday weapons. <_<;;
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Brand
Streetwise
Posts: 289
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Post by Brand on Jun 27, 2006 9:06:57 GMT -5
For Brand it's an everyday weapon. *pets gun*
And I agree. Maybe Ancient just didn't take the time to read over all of our posts and just skipped to your list there. It's quite possible. But yes, magic and psionic weapons are silly, as they somewhat go against what the magicer/psyker is. *nods*
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